‘What do you hate about making games?’

‘What do you hate about making games?’


DAN GALPIN: One
thing I always say when you’re doing panel
discussions is you’re supposed to have somebody
keep track of it. So basically, my
job is to be sort of the administrative
assistant for this exercise, because all the really important
people are coming up behind me. The title of this
panel is “Why I Hate Making Games
Exactly” or “What I Hate About Making Games.” And I first really
didn’t like that title. I didn’t come up
with that title. Because I hope that everyone
is here because they either love games or they
love making games. I mean I hope no one is here
just because this is something they’ve been forced into doing. I think the game industry tends
to really not be that way. Who here actually loves
playing games, first of all? Yeah. And who here actually
loves building games? All right. So more players than
builders, which is fine. But since the title
of this presentation is “What You Hate About
Making Games”– but I wanted to start out initially saying,
hopefully we all really love games, and most of us
really love making games. Because otherwise
we wouldn’t be here. And so let’s
introduce our panel. So we’ve got Saad Choudri,
who’s the VP of Miniclip. SAAD CHOUDRI: Just get on stage? DAN GALPIN: Yeah, just come
on stage as I introduce you. We’ve got Chris Southall,
who’s the CTO Sega Europe. Where’s Andy? Oh. Well anyways, we’ve got
Doron Kagan– oh, there we are– Andy Payne
from Mastertronic. ANDY PAYNE: Apologies. DAN GALPIN: And also
founder of AppyNation, I wanted to make sure
I included that. ANDY PAYNE: Yeah, thank you. DAN GALPIN: So, please welcome. So I’m not going to
start off with asking what do you hate
about making games, but I want to talk about a
couple of different areas. So one is we’ve been seeing a
huge switch in gaming from kind of traditional style PC
gaming to a lot of web gaming, and now mobile gaming is
what’s really, really hot. So I wanted to talk
about, first of all, is the initial question,
what are the things that are challenging when it
comes to making that switch? What are things
that you used to be able to do that you
can’t do any more? What are things that
you’re struggling with, in terms of making the switch
between traditional gaming and into mobile gaming, or from
web gaming to mobile gaming? So I’m just going to throw
this out here to the panel. SAAD CHOUDRI: I guess
I’ll start then. Just make it– DAN GALPIN: Yeah, yeah. Please, please. SAAD CHOUDRI: That’s all right. So yeah, Miniclip has gone
through this transition quite visibly. We are very well known as
a web portal, web platform. And over the last
three and a half years, we’ve set up our mobile
division, both developing and publishing. Essentially, I think
the biggest challenge is the mobile platform
has so many issues that you have to solve before
you can even really publish a game on there. So it’s not only that
you have to optimize it if you’re making a
multiplayer game, which we do, for the kind of
mobile kind of amount of data you could send
across the network, to user acquisition,
which is the big elephant in the room for most people. And then touch device, so just
the input and the UI and the UX that you have to solve. So those are some
interesting challenges that you have to meet before
you could even really think about just essentially
taking a web game to the mobile platform. So we’ve been doing it for about
three and a half years now. We think we’ve got it down to a
bit of a science, a little bit of an art, especially
with one of our games, our flagship title,
which is 8 Ball Pool. And we’re still figuring out. It’s not easy. I think on the web it was
you have mouse and keyboard input, which makes– you know
we’ve had that for the last 20 plus years, and
touch devices have come since basically the iPhone. We won’t talk about Windows CE. DAN GALPIN: I program
for that platform, we shouldn’t talk about it. SAAD CHOUDRI: No, we won’t. CHRIS SOUTHALL: So for
us, we’ve kind of– we’ve not come from the web obviously. I’ve come from console
and PC as a background. And actually we kind of
figured that we probably didn’t know that
much two years ago when we started doing mobile. And it took about six
months to actually start to learn what we didn’t know. You’ve got this
thing where you’ve got unknown unknowns
and known unknowns, and we didn’t even know the
known unknown for some months. So that was interesting. We’re a bunch of guys who’ve
been doing console games maybe 10 or 15 years. And we kind of thought, right
we need some analytics in there. So we’ll make a game
and hopefully we’ll have some things that
people want to buy, and we’ll put some analytics in. And then we’ll figure
out how they’re doing, and then we’ll
change some things, and actually that doesn’t
go very well at all. Obviously, it’s
part of Sega, we’ve got quite big IPs so there’s
a big advantage there. You were talking
earlier about UA. Obviously, if
you’ve got something like Sonic the
Hedgehog, he kind of sells games without
too much fuss. You don’t need to do too
much advertising, but then– SAAD CHOUDRI: He is your UA. CHRIS SOUTHALL: He is our UA. But actually, after that
that’s where the work begins. And it’s very different, because
when you put a game on a disk, you sell it, your
work is finished. And actually, that’s where
the work is just starting. And we kind of didn’t
understand that. We sort of in our heads,
we sort of knew it, but now we’re starting to
understand that instinctively. So the pattern of game
develops very different. When you first release that
game, that’s your first point. But then you’re really looking
at retaining users, and making sure users are
engaged and talking about all of these things
that some of these guys have been presenting on today,
which is looking at data, making sure you’ve got the
social aspects nailed in there, making sure that you know you’ve
got different types of players in the games, and catering
for all of those players. It’s is just a
much bigger expanse that you’re looking at
as a game developer. What do I hate
about making games? That’s a question I’ve
been thinking about. What can I answer? To Dan’s point, we’re all here
because we like making games and we like the
business, I think. The one thing I wasn’t so fond
of with console development was crunch. And we would end up–
the best [INAUDIBLE] in the world, the
best planned projects, you would end up
doing some heavy hours towards the end
of game releases. We actually can’t do that now,
because with games as a service if you crunch you’re
knackered and you still need to maintain the game,
and that doesn’t go very well. So it’s actually quite a nice
pace for game development now, doing mobile games
and just releasing a game and maintaining it. So that’s been good. DAN GALPIN: Well I think
you touch on something there that the people who were
developing web games were a lot closer to what
we’re doing, in a sense of they already were developing games
as a service to a large degree. And they already were thinking
of very, very quick execution cycles and a lot
of data analysis. That’s just what’s ingrained
in being in the web. So I think it is interesting,
I mean coming from the console. Now the thing that’s
interesting is also I think that people on
these mobile devices are engaging long, for
long periods of time, but in very, very
short sessions. And I think that’s
also a change. So in terms of
content– and I want to continue throwing
this out to the panel, because I was leading at kind
of two things with the question. One is not only in terms
of the way one makes games, but in terms of the
content within the games, how do you see that
changing as well? So just keeping going. CHRIS SOUTHALL: Yeah,
I mean for my point– I’ll let you answer
in a minute– DORON KAGAN: Yeah, OK. CHRIS SOUTHALL: That’s an
interesting thing as well, because we were making games
that would be like, is it an eight hour game
or a ten hour game? A ten hour game, we’re done,
that’s a good console game. Now we’re making games that
need to last hundreds of hours, but in very short, short bursts. So yeah, that’s a big
difference as well. But, sorry. DORON KAGAN: Sure. DAN GALPIN: Let’s
keep going, thank you. DORON KAGAN: I’m Doron,
I’m from Deemedya. We are a boutique publisher. We don’t publish a lot. We publish only on mobile. And we have 100
million downloads, many from Trial Xtreme. We were born in
the Java days, so I don’t have a lot of
console experience. But in today’s world,
to think about the game that you can design in
the studio with the best brains in the country,
and to release it in six months, 12
months, to the market without any ability to change
it is unthinkable today. When we finish a
game that we think is close to perfect
from our perspective, we first soft launch it in a
couple of– Canada, Australia, New Zealand. And then we, using Google
Analytics and other tools, learning that everything that we
thought that the user will do, he’s not doing and he’s
doing the other way around. So learning the behavior of
the user in the soft launch, by measuring the– by
learning the behavior of a few thousands,
10 thousands of users, allows us to change the
pattern to a pattern that the users, the
potential clients, are voting in their legs. What do they really
want to see in the game? Where do they go? They don’t go to where
we want them to go, they go to other way around. So yes, I totally agree. The web developers are much
closer to today’s market because the model of
ongoing work on the game, rather than the release is more
or less the end of the game. For us, it’s only the beginning. And the major change
that it brought is that, if this market used
to be ruled by companies like Sega that had the ability
to be a worldwide distributor because they had
the relationship and they had the
money, here in the room there might be a developer that
is sitting with a Unity license or without a Unity license,
and he can publish a game and be all over the world
tomorrow morning and by chance to be the next big thing. So for me, this
is the big thing. CHRIS SOUTHALL: Yeah, it’s been
disruptive for the old fossils, I think, slightly. DAN GALPIN: So one thing
is, you touched on something that I thought was
kind of interesting. So I want to kind of
poll the room here. So how many people,
first of all, do soft launches
of their titles? Just kind of by–
Do soft launches? And how many people
have actually used an alpha or beta
launch within Google Play? OK, not as many. I’m just kind of curious. It’s one of the things that I
was really excited about last year, was that we added the
ability to actually create a community, either a G+
community or a Google group, and do a soft launch
to that group. And it’s kind of useful
for testing internally, so I was just sort of curious. But I think that’s
actually a huge change. It’s actually funny, I
think it was in 2007 at GDC that Microsoft announced they
were actually using analytics to generate heat
maps for where people died in various
levels of Halo 3. And that was like, woah. And now I think if
you released a title without having analytics, and
without knowing where people were dying and getting
stuck and frustrated, you’d look like
you wouldn’t know what you’re doing in some ways. And so I think we’ve changed
our relationship to big data has changed. DORON KAGAN: No, I think
you’re totally right. And I just want to add
this point, the ability to change the game
while it’s running, and to meet the next user that
will download it with a better product than the previous
user that downloaded, this is a critical thing. And what Google
done, and I think they failed to
communicate it, the AB testing that Google released–
that I found out just by mistake, I think
eight months ago or something– is
an amazing tool. It allows us– and we
do it for every release that we do– if we do an update
to an existing game or existing app, we first release it to
50%, a specific audience. And then we see how
they react and we decide if to release
the additional 50%, or to wait with the 50% to
send another update because it didn’t work as good as
we thought, or maybe a technical problem with
some devices, et cetera. DAN GALPIN: One of the things
that I was really excited about last week– which we aren’t
going to cover here today– but we actually announced it and
launched it at GDC last week, was we actually did launch
Google Tag Manager for mobile. So if you want to
go beyond AB testing and actually run
experiments in your game, you can actually
use Google Analytics to help segment your
user base and actually deliver things like
different strings. And that can actually be used
to change game play behavior, and you can actually
set up like a result. Like what do I actually
want to see as the result, and then have it
optimize for that result automatically and
start delivering that content automatically. So it’s really cool. I’m super excited about it. It’s worth checking out. Had to put a plug-in there
just because AB testing means a lot to me, and I
actually– one of the things I’ve been telling
our team is I want to be able to AB
test everything. Everything within
Play, everything with– because you
just need to know. I want to know what works. We haven’t talked
yet, Andy, so I wanted you get you
get a word on this. ANDY PAYNE: I’d like that. I’d like you to be on the panel. I think you’re much
better than we are. One of things that
concerns me– so we have two parts to our business. One is the mobile part,
which is really interesting. And I don’t think I’ve learned
quite so much in the last three years, as I’ve ever learned. Difficult years,
knowing what you’re learning to be useful
in a space of time, what you’re learning
to be utter crap. And it’s not always obvious. We spent 1.5 million
pounds of our own money back in about seven or eight
years ago in the Java days, and we shut that
business down about three weeks before the App
store was launched. That was a salutary
lesson in doing things the old-fashioned way,
which is put some money, make great games, and
it’s all going to be easy. The other part of
our business– we work on PC– we work
principally with Steam, and what we’re seeing there
is a very interesting dynamic within early access. And that’s really
changed the game as well. And one of the
things I think I’m going to hate about making
games– I actually don’t like the word hate,
it’s quite strong– and I don’t hate much about
making games right now. One of things that
concerns me is we’ve moved from console/PC,
two years in the studio, hitting the crunch,
getting pissed off with what you’re doing and
seeing that it never turned out like you thought it was gonna
do– you know that thing– to the power of 200 people,
which could be quite destructive, into we’re all
the service, we’re on all time, it’s all fantastic. And you find that you’re making
the equivalent of Kylie Minogue records– whatever
the public wants, you’re going to give them. That for me as a creative
would be disturbing. And I’m not sure I particularly
like the prospect of that. But if it turns you
on because you’re gonna make a ton of
money, you could probably deal with that side
of it and say hey, you know what, that’s
great because it’s really creative
making all that money. But I just wonder how much
of the creative process we are then putting
out to the crowd. And that might well
be a good thing. I don’t believe in the old– DAN GALPIN: And that leads
me to my next question, which was what do you hate
about free-to-play? ANDY PAYNE: Yeah, well. CHRIS SOUTHALL: Do you not think
that’s two extremes though? Because actually there’s
such a wide audience, you can make quite a cool
game and have a big audience. So I don’t think you’re throwing
away any sort of moral fiber. ANDY PAYNE: No, no. I’m trying to paint the sort
of two extremes, the fascists and the communists. They go around the back through
Alaska or somewhere, you know? SAAD CHOUDRI: Well
I was going to say, when I was thinking
about the question and how to answer
it because firstly, we all love making games. That’s why we’re here,
that’s why we’re doing this. One of those points
I was going to make is monetization, which is funny
because that’s principally what I’m responsible for. So it’s the thing that I
should love the most, and I do. But to Andy’s point,
yeah, you could talk about the ethics and
the morals of free-to-play. And it is something that
I think, as an industry, we’re struggling with. Because essentially,
there are a few ways that we have figured
out in the market and as an industry that works. And a lot of us are
all using those, without any
creativity or thought in the type of
monetization loop. We’re all got the game
loops, I think, down. I think it’s the
monetization loops. The fact that we talk
about monetization in the terms of
friction and pain points– that not good kind
of verbiage to use anyway– but it kind of is
indicative of the issues we have around monetization
as an industry. Free-to-play, we’re still
figuring it out as an industry, I think. And I think until we’ve
actually found a way where we’re comfortable both ethnically,
from a business perspective, in mitigating the risk
in trying to release some of these titles, I
think we are going to struggle with
this for a while. And I think ultimately,
it’s free to play. Like Chris’ team, and I came
from the console space as well. We used to work
together in days past. There was something
kind of honorable about spending $10 million and
then trying to release a game and recouping that from
what the users liked. But I mean, there was also
a little bit dishonorable because we would spend
a lot on marketing, and we’re hyping the game and
then people would spend $60 and then not enjoy it. ANDY PAYNE: Or big
companies would hijack the space in Walmart, and
that would it for the consumers so I think where we are now
is a million times better from where we’ve been– SAAD CHOUDRI: But
that’s what I’m saying– ANDY PAYNE: But we’re
figuring stuff out. SAAD CHOUDRI: Yeah, as we
evolve and as we figure out the correct model
for our consumer. Because the other thing as
well is this analytics focus is crucial. We none of us
disagree with that. But to try and extract
dollars from those users without presenting
fair enough value, it can’t just be
a compulsion loop, it’s got to be a fun loop. DORON KAGAN: Yeah, but there is
another aspect to the analytics side. I totally agree on
the monetization, I should like it also. This is the dirty part of work. But there is another aspect,
even deeper than that and that’s the analytics. Our job is to analyze
the behavior of the user, and if we do it
well, we know how to tweak it towards
the monetization. Now, the border of how
much you track the user is becoming vaguer and vaguer. We are getting
companies that starting by offering us to put
their SDK and know every other app that the
user have on his device. Other than that, when he’s
waking up and starting to activate the device,
what are we doing, actually? We are preparing the
future into a world– I’m sorry for being
apocalyptic– into a world that we track everything
a person will do. And how do it? We use games. It’s OK when the
NSA is doing it. They are spies, they are evil,
they are listening to us. Have a nice day, NSA. But we’re doing– DAN GALPIN: Just kidding,
you’re not evil, really. [LAUGHTER] SAAD CHOUDRI: But it is to
Andy’s point about creativity, right? If we are analyzing
the user and just giving them what they
want, which there is some benefit to that. And I would agree that we
should be looking towards that and trying to cater
towards the users. You know, innovation in
our space is lacking. We are struggling to find games
which effectively monetize in the free-to-play model. And if we continue
to use analytics to the extensive degree
that we are currently using as an industry, we
won’t be future looking. We will always be
looking behind us. And innovation and iterative
design can work hand in hand. I just think some
companies will have to start taking a
little bit more risks. At Miniclip, we’ve
got 900 plus web games that we can still bring over. So we’ve got a lot of
innovation still to make. But for other companies
from the console space, I do appreciate that it’s going
to be a bit more difficult. DORON KAGAN: But
this is the beauty. It doesn’t have to be
a big Miniclip company. SAAD CHOUDRI: No, it doesn’t. DORON KAGAN: Could
be “Flappy Bird” coming out of
nowhere, a developer– SAAD CHOUDRI: It proves
that anything I say today is meaningless. DORON KAGAN: Exactly. SAAD CHOUDRI: Don’t
listen to anything I say. DORON KAGAN: No,
nobody knows anything. Ubisoft and this guy
are basically the same. They have the same
standing chance. And he won, the company
that’s worth billions, so– SAAD CHOUDRI: I think
no– that’s just not going to be sustainable
model for our companies. We do have to try
and mitigate risk, and we do have to try and make
it a little bit more stable. Because otherwise, we
won’t have companies who will create the next
“Call of Duty” on mobile, or the next FIFA on mobile. For all the sins– ANDY PAYNE: Well the next
“Call of Duty” on mobile’s been shut down. SAAD CHOUDRI: Oh yeah. ANDY PAYNE: It shut
down the blast furnace because they couldn’t make any
money out of it, apparently. SAAD CHOUDRI: Well, not the
next in the actual franchise, but the next title. ANDY PAYNE: It says quite a lot. It’s the brutality of
the world that we’re in. DAN GALPIN: I think
the interesting thing is if you look at
mobile gaming today, one thing still holds true which
is the games that are making the most money have
the most engagement. Which makes me think
that at some level they’re the most engaging. And maybe that’s
not entirely true, but it still means
that we’re still optimizing around
making games engaging rather than truly
just optimizing around monetization in fact. ANDY PAYNE: I just
want to be very clear. I really, really
like free-to-play. Let’s not get that
any other way, OK? I’m pretty clear about that. And most of the, if not
all, of the mobile games that we’ve made will
be free-to-play. But, I was with a really
talented games developer, designer, last week who’s made
the most awesome game I’ve seen on mobile. And the subject matter
particularly appeals to me. It’s very, very humorous, but
is not a free-to-play game. He hasn’t designed it that way. He’s built it, and he’s likely
not interested in free-to-play because he doesn’t understand
it and he’s a games designer. That’s a concern,
because it’s like, well where is that
game gonna go? If that doesn’t get featured
by the platforms heavily, it could just disappear nowhere. And that is one
hell of a designer who’s got a track record. DORON KAGAN: Even feature
will not help now. ANDY PAYNE: No, no. CHRIS SOUTHALL:
That’s a good point, because what you were
talking about earlier. Actually, there’s
a lot of machinery that needs to be in place
now to do all of this stuff. And with the best
[INAUDIBLE] in the world even using these great tools,
you need a lot of know-how and you need a few pieces
there to actually make free-to-play games work. And that’s almost getting
back to that problem where your “Flappy
Bird”– right, OK, I’ll take that as a kind
of bolt of lightning. But the smaller indies, it’s
more and more hard and more and more brutal in the market. ANDY PAYNE: “Tearaway”
for example, if anyone’s played that game. It’s a lovely game. Does that exist in the world
of mobile as a paid for game? I don’t know, it’s a
question out there really. But without Sony, that game
wouldn’t have been made. DAN GALPIN: Sorry, go on. SAAD CHOUDRI: No, but to the
point about the game developer you saw. I mean, it’s not really changed. It’s the same with when we
met a game designer back in the publishing days. He might have
created a great game, but if it didn’t fit within
the portfolio of the publishers it wouldn’t have
come out either. ANDY PAYNE: That is true. SAAD CHOUDRI: At
least this way he’s got a chance to put it
on the market somewhere. ANDY PAYNE: Well, he will do. SAAD CHOUDRI: Exactly. ANDY PAYNE: He’ll publish it. Yeah. DORON KAGAN: In paid? As paid? ANDY PAYNE: Yeah, as paid, yeah. Even though I say we
don’t do any paid games. DORON KAGAN: It’s
very brave of you. ANDY PAYNE: Well, sometimes
you gotta be brave. DAN GALPIN: That brings
me to another question. In mobile right now we really
see a fairly strong divide. We see games that
are ad supported. We see games that are paymium,
where you buy the game and then you can buy
in-app purchases. We see games that are
supported by in-app purchases. And we see games that
are actually premium. What business
models are missing? Is there something else that
we should be thinking about? SAAD CHOUDRI: Subscription. DAN GALPIN: And subscription,
of course, is actually– DORON KAGAN: It’s
very convenient, but nobody will go for it. SAAD CHOUDRI: Why not? “World
of Warcraft” did it for a while. DORON KAGAN: Yeah, for a while. But the world is changing. SAAD CHOUDRI: The
world is changing. CHRIS SOUTHALL: I think
if you skew younger, then subscription is much
more meaningful as well. DORON KAGAN: I disagree. I think that people are
not willing to obligate for long term. SAAD CHOUDRI: I agree, but what
I’m saying is that there is, potentially, there is
a space for somebody to fill that, possibly. So when you talk
about subscription, are you talking about a
subscription game service where someone could select
from a hundred different games, and it was aggregated
down into developers and they ended up getting
paid for the engagement that people are getting? DORON KAGAN: But why? There is free
subscription today. Google Play is a free
subscription service. You go in, they feature,
they choose the list of games that they think are good games. It’s free subscription. So why would anybody pay
for any game service that would limit him to 100
games or 1,000 games? SAAD CHOUDRI: I was talking
more of the kind of MMO or young children’s
type platform. DORON KAGAN: One game. SAAD CHOUDRI: Yeah. ANDY PAYNE: So one of
the questions I had is, what are the
challenges when trying to make games for young
children with free-to-play, and with this new model? One of the traditional markets
for games have been children. That’s how I started playing
games when I was very young. And how do we deal with that? One of the things
that’s been brought up is subscriptions around
that, but talk about it. I think it’s one
of the challenges. SAAD CHOUDRI:
Payment is difficult. Again, the ethics
of free-to-play, how to present in-app
purchases to that audience. You’ve got to be
very conscious of it. We’ve been COPPA
compliant since we started and it’s crucial for
us to maintain that. And also, it’s a hard
audience to the service now because there’s so many
apps out there for free. CHRIS SOUTHALL:
And that’s why you start talking about subscription
and you go back to paid. Especially if you go much
younger than sort of 15, in reality. Is it’s an open
question, I think. ANDY PAYNE: It
feels like there’s a paid app market
for children’s games. [INAUDIBLE] make brilliant
apps and they charge for them, at the moment. I don’t have any kids,
but I’m sure there’s plenty of parents– who
are parents in the room? So at least half. What would you do? Would you give your
child just free reign to download what they want
or do you want to pay? Well what would you do? DAN GALPIN: Yeah. Out there, just as a show
of hands, how many people would actually get a
subscription for their kids if they knew that it was comped
and it was free and clear and they just paid
a monthly fee? Just who would actually do it? All right. SAAD CHOUDRI: There you are. So you answered
your own question. [INTERPOSING VOICES] DORON KAGAN: I’m learning. Why do you think I came here? DAN GALPIN: So we have only
a short period of time left. So I wanted to kind
of give everyone a chance to kind
of make a closing statement around what
we’ve talked about. I know we didn’t
get to everything. I think we could have done a
two hour panel, personally. I didn’t want to bore everyone
in the audience to death, but I certainly enjoyed this. So closing statement about what
do you think is the best thing about mobile? Let’s close with a positive. What’s the best thing
about mobile gaming and what it’s done
to the industry? SAAD CHOUDRI: Democratization,
and portability, and one device in my pocket. CHRIS SOUTHALL: Yeah,
I think is a good thing to have broadened the appeal
and the availability of games to a broader audience. I also find it a lot
easier to work pretty much anywhere because I’m
doing mobile games. Which is a curse as well. So I can pretty much be
testing or playing with things at any time of the day and
night, which is different. DAN GALPIN: So true. DORON KAGAN: I agree. One is the ability
of every developer to compete with the EAs and
the Ubisoft of a few years ago that nobody had the
chance to dream about it. If you would dream
about it, you would wake up and replace yourself. The second thing is the
fact that in the Java days, we were looking at the
target audience of 4%, of the people that had mobile
phones that are playing games. And we were struggling
to get to five. And now we’re looking
at the audience of what 90 whatever percent. Everybody are
playing games, so we are living in a great
time in a grand industry. So just good. ANDY PAYNE: I 100%
agree with that. I think the for me it’s
the low barriers to entry. Which means that we’ll talk
about– in a panel here, we’ll talk about
children’s games and the panel will have
seven or eight year olds making those
games for their mates. And how they sell them,
and how they do it, that’s going to happen
within a matter of years. DAN GALPIN: Absolutely. ANDY PAYNE: And I think that
the low barriers to entry do drive the innovation. And despite what
I’ve said, I think that there’s never been
more original content being made across all devices. And the whole world
now plays games, which they’ve always done. Because we always
played games as kids, not video games,
but other games. So it’s a great time. And it’s interesting
that Google yourself refers to the great
thing about mobile. I think there’s some pretty good
stuff going on with PC as well, obviously. And there’s a number PC
developers in the room and I don’t think
those two areas are. Exclusive DAN GALPIN: Not at all, and
I actually– this is just me, coming from my
background is in mobile, so you’re seeing my bias. ANDY PAYNE: No, a bit
from the perspective of the truly great companies–
outside of Google, which is a great company– what
Valve are doing is awesome, what Oculus is doing is awesome. And this is the
best time ever to be a games maker, and
probably a player. So great, it’s all bring it on. DORON KAGAN: It’s a
great time to live. ANDY PAYNE: I love this man. I love this man. DAN GALPIN: I’d like to thank
the whole panel for coming up here. It’s always challenging to go
in front of a room, especially a room this intimate
like this and just talk. So I really appreciate
all of what you brought, and so everyone give
them a round of applause. [APPLAUSE] And we’re going to move on to
our next session and I don’t think, do we actually have
time for any questions? AUDIENCE: One quick question. DAN GALPIN: Yeah, sorry. Yeah, while we’ve got
the panel up here. DORON KAGAN: Only people that
are paying for questions. [LAUGHTER] AUDIENCE: OK, it’s
more of a suggestion. You said monetization
model that doesn’t exist, pay what you want. ANDY PAYNE: Yeah. DAN GALPIN: I love
that model, yeah. ANDY PAYNE: I have here. DAN GALPIN: Yes, exactly. And actually bundles. I’d like to see bundles. I’d like to see actually people
just be able to host bundles on Play would awesome,
for personally. ANDY PAYNE: Another
great company. DAN GALPIN: Anything else? MALE MODERATOR: OK, thank very
much to Saad, Chris, Doron, and Andy. And thank you Dan
Galpin for hosting.


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