The Truth About Ping Abuse In Online Games

The Truth About Ping Abuse In Online Games

What’s up guys Rogue-9 here and in today’s
video I want to shine a bit of a spotlight onto the issue of peeker’s advantage, ping
abuse and how latency in general will affect your experience when you are playing a first
person shooter that uses server side hit validation. Dying to a high ping opponent who manages
to kill you before they even pop up on your screen is super frustrating and as we all
know the higher the enemy’s ping, the more time they have to shoot you after
coming around a corner, right? WRONG! This is one of the most common misconceptions
when it comes to peeker’s advantage and in fact one that I myself used to believe for a long time. I will be explaining the various issues in
this video using Rainbow Six Siege as a basis but these concepts will apply to all games
that use server side hit validation, so the findings will apply to pretty much all modern
online first person shooter games out there. And with that, let’s finally get to it! Before I launch into an explanation of how
and why your opponent’s ping does not matter at all when it comes to peeker’s advantage,
let me first very briefly go over some of the basics to make sure we’re all on the same page. Ping, that number we see shown to us in online
games: that’s the time it takes for a message from your PC or console to travel to the server and back. Latency is the time is takes for a message
to travel on one leg of that journey, so from your device to the server or from the server to you. So latency is basically half the ping. Times are usually shown in milliseconds. Now, how does this affect gameplay? Well, when you provide any input to the game
on your device (e.g. moving your character, using your weapon or a gadget or anything
else really) that input is registered on the local game client on your machine and your
character performs the required action. At the same time, a message is sent to the
server informing it of what you have chosen to do in your game and it will take half the
time of your ping plus the processing time of up to one tick for the server to receive
and understand that message. I’m going to keep things simple in the examples
going forward and leave out the processing time on the server and client and we will
simply assume that they are equal for all players although of course a player running
the game at a very low frame rate will have be disadvantaged compared to others
but that it a whole other topic. So the message has now reached the server,
is processed and then of course it needs to get sent out to all of the other players and
the time it takes for the message of your original action to reach the other players
is dependent on their individual latencies. What all of this will cause is what we can
think of as a ghosting effect. When you move on your device, your character
as represented on the server will lag behind by half of your ping and then you will need
to add half of the other players’ pings on top of that to get the time lag when compared
to what they see on their PCs or consoles. Makes sense so far? Good! I tested this in game but before I show you
that, here’s a quick word from today’s sponsor! This video is sponsored by Drop, the company
formerly known as Massdrop and their product, the Sennheiser PC37X gaming headset! I have owned this headset for many months
now and I am still more than happy to recommend it! Sennheiser is of course known for making great
quality speakers and great speakers translate into great sound quality. Light and comfortable to wear even over long
time periods, I would say that this headset is a great all in one solution for anyone
looking for a mic and headphone combo but don’t just take my word for it. The item currently has a great customer rating
of over 4.5 out of 5 stars. So if you’re in the market for a new headset,
I can definitely recommend the PC37X and if you use the link in the description below
a $30 discount will automatically be applied for you during checkout! Many Thanks to Drop for supporting the channel! Let’s face it, playing with high ping is
never a great experience. For one, silly things like this can happen:
As you can see in this clip where both players have high ping, I landed a total of 5 headshots
on Rook here before losing the gunfight. 100% ridiculous and what’s even worse is
that in the death cam replay you can still see me supposedly shooting 5
bullets before Rook reacts! What really happened in this clip is that
Rook actually fired a split second before me and since his shots were registered on
the server first, all of my follow up hits were rejected and I lost the fight. It looks really sketchy both in the live play
and in the replay but actually, it worked perfectly as intended. The player that shot first (where both players
have a pretty bad ping) won the fight. But how does high ping affect peeking? Here is what it looks like to get peeked on
a server where both players have a pretty high ping… I think it’s fair to say that that was pretty
much an instant death; I really didn’t have any chance to react. Now let’s look at that situation in a local
match where the ping of both players is 1ms… Ok, that also was pretty much instant… In fact, if we put the two clips side by side,
you can see that they are virtually identical and any variance is most likely due to the
human factor of me not replicating the peek perfectly across both tests… But isn’t high ping supposed to cause a
major difference in the victim’s experience due to peeker’s advantage? Well, here is where the most common misconception
of peeker’s advantage comes in. The higher the ping of the peeking player,
the more profound the ghosting effect on the server will be BUT this will not provide them
with any advantage at all. Because we have server side hit validation,
it will take just as long for the player’s shots to be registered on the server and this
basically cancels out any advantage that would come from the higher ping of the peeker. Let that sink in for a second: The ping of
the peeker doesn’t matter, because any advantage in terms of the time they get to see the opponent
before the server registers the peek is eaten up by the time it then takes for the shots to register. Peeker’s advantage is still a real thing
but it is in fact the ping of the victim that is important here. Many seasons ago, the Rainbow Six dev team
shared a visual example in a blog post and why don’t I walk you through this step by
step to explain what I mean. In this example, we have player 1 (with a
high ping of 200ms) peeking player 2 (who has a lower ping of 100ms). Player 1 peeks and it takes 100ms (half the
ping) for the peek to be registered on the server. Then it takes 50ms (half of player 2’s ping)
for the info of that movement to be sent player 2’s PC or console. So at the time that player 2 gets to see the peek, player 1 has already been fully exposed for a full 150ms. 150ms after this, player 1 fires (we are assuming
a 300ms reaction time) and it then takes 100ms for that info to reach the server. As long as player 2 manages to shoot early
enough for their shots to reach the server first, they still win the gunfight and their
own latency of 50ms again plays a role here. What this results in, is a window of opportunity
during which player 2 can win the gunfight and that is player 1’s reaction time minus
player 2’s ping. In a perfect world, we would have no delay
at all and it would just be a case of whoever shoots first wins, so as long as you can aim
and shoot quicker than your opponent, you’ve got this. But since it’s all about who’s shots register
on the server first, the disadvantage for player 2 comes from the 50ms it takes to see
the opponent after the server has already registered the peek and then the additional 50ms it takes for player 2’s shots to register on the server. Player two is disadvantaged twice by their
latency, which adds up to their ping and therefore explains the peeker’s advantage window of
opportunity formula I mentioned earlier: Player two must react faster than player 1’s reaction
time minus player 2’s ping. I hope this little example helped clarify
what I’m trying to get at because it was a complete revelation to me when I found out
that it’s my own ping providing the opponents’ peeker’s advantage and not theirs. And consequently, there is actually no such
thing as “ping abuse”… If an opponent has a very high ping, they
get no advantage when peeking you but they do get a serious disadvantage when you peek them. Any kind of peeker’s advantage you perceive
against yourself is down to your ping and the processing time on the server/your machine. No more, no less. And beyond that, the disadvantage of a high
ping goes even further because if you are ever in a gunfight situation where both players
fire at each other at the same time on their clients, the player with the higher ping will
lose, because their shots will reach the server later and if they are already marked as dead
on the server, their hits will be rejected, resulting in an all-out win for the low ping player. BUT: Why is it then that we have these experiences
all the time where we die without the opponent ever appearing on our screens?! And why is it almost always against players
who have a bad ping?! Maybe the answer is that those deaths are
more down to perspective, than lag… Maybe we notice suspicious deaths more when
the opponent has a high ping because that fits in more with the usual understanding
of peeker’s advantage. I’m just guessing here of course but the
fact is that in games with server side hit validation; there is no plausible reason why the peeker’s ping should provide them with any kind of benefit. And that’s it; I do hope that my little
excursion into this frustrating topic has provided a little more clarity on the issue. If you learnt something today and enjoyed
the video, do leave it a thumbs-up and if you didn’t like it, that’s what
the thumbs-down is there for. Do leave any comments you have below and as
always, thank you so much for watching, I hope you enjoyed the video and I will see
you in the next episode!

100 thoughts on “The Truth About Ping Abuse In Online Games

  1. Yup. I have to glitch 'cause i get randomly joined to weird servers (I live in the Europe but i get joined to WUS, SBR, CUS or another server with 4275267826940ms ping.).

  2. yeah … live in iran and we dont have any server lower than 100 90 ping beside eu !!! being called ping abuser EVERYTIME is just fucked up

  3. İm going to show this to every filthy american that says im shitting on them only because im lagging ın their mönğölian net.

  4. So having lower ping is than a advantage? So if I'm playing against 8 ping with 100 ping then his shot would regeister faster than mine?

  5. The mistake you made in your video also the same as Ubi both stationary (not practical for real gameplay nor peeking) or one mobile and other not then the ping is almost the same for both (we are discussing ping abuse not same ping gameplay).
    Have you tried a classic case: high ping rush vs stationary low ping? Is every human has a reflect that is good enough to turn 200 ms to advantage at any time? Also at 4:55 u can see that the high ping peeker peek u twice while on ur screen he only peeks u once (mind blown).
    This sentence: "where we die without the opponent ever appearing on our screen" is the major question to this topic if you can't answer it then your explanation sound right but it is not right (promising but meh) but overall, nice effort video support Ubi claim.

  6. Wait ghosting? Body lag behind? Isnt that somewhat a peekers advantage because his hitbox is behind and on his screen he already peeked knows the position and may align for the next shots but on the victim he didnt see him come out first.

  7. I’m still confused… I was playing against BR players (in east us) and I constantly was dying to someone turning the corner, staring at me, lining up the headshot and tapping me, but on my screen I was literally getting prefired, what causes this?

  8. The headphones are a copy of the G4ME One which itself is a copy of the pc 360 g4me which is itself based on Sennheiser hd 555's which all they did was add a mic and a slightly different headband mounting. The old stuff performs identically and can be purchased used for around 30-50 bucks. They all have essentially the same earcups with the same frequency range and SPL.

  9. Good explanation but i think you missed something important. If P1 peeks a stationary target (and most peeks go to a defender sitting holding an angle) and his ping is, lets say its higher than 600ms (i know its extreme but it also works with lower ping to some extent), p1 sees the sitting defender as he was on the same spot all the time and has time to shoot, the moment the defender sees the attacker its allready to late as p1 shot allready. This gives you as high ping player an advantage over sitting players.
    You can see this in the killcam when someone looked at you for half a second till he shot but on your screen you instantly died.

  10. You know what i hate even more ? Being called out for having a 9 ping even though i suck ass and dont get kill anyway. It’s not my fault you don’t have better internet.

  11. i've never been more disappointed with one of ur vids… The problem doesnt come when he peeks (as you say, its a missconception), the problem comes when YOU leave the angle, he will still see you, but you are long gone.

    How many times have you run behind a non-destructible wall and youve been killed by someone with 150 ping?

  12. No you're not understanding… if the player peaking moves his crosshair unto the opponent before the opponent even sees them, he already has the advantage in the gunfight, it doesn;t matter if he cant actually hit him for a split second hes already got the read on the opponent.

  13. Plays with high ping: gets gold
    Plays with low ping: gets plat 1
    Clearly high ping makes the game easier to get kills. Ty rogue for tackling this topic. You did well, I tested this with one of my low ping friends and it turned out I needed 30% more bullets before my opponent died because the server doesnt register the first 2 shots

  14. Yeah but how about when you peek and you see nothing so you return to cover. Then a second later the enemy peeks you and sees your ghost still there and shoots you.

  15. What a shitty video. "Here's two clips I recorded as proof, also I don't know why I'm still being peeked but it's probably my imagination." It's a poorly coded game, as proof by the LAN example. Ubi devs, please eat bad frog legs and pass away.

  16. I like your theory and it makes a lot of sense but I've been killed before I see anything happen multiple times by people with 100-200+ ping and mine's a solid 9-20. Don't usually get a single ms of opportunity

  17. 10/10 times If I have 90 ping my bullets don't reg
    And the enemy either rubber bands before I 1 tap them, or they obviously see me well before I see them, or I just actually don't see them

  18. Idk bro. I went to EU servers (usually SCUS) and had 120 ping and was killing them like bots. I never go 15-3 in casual several games in a row
    I got a clip of me getting a double headshot vs them not being lined up, and through a reinforced wall like… Lol

  19. there is soooo many situation that caught me when doing headshot and it doesnt register and i die instantly because of high ping in R6S. can 5g internet fix that thing tho?

  20. it's completely wrong I have between 9 and 15 ping at most and when I face a player with 50 or more like 100 200 ping I always lose my duels have a low ping R6 is almost lost all the time his fight btw EU servers

  21. Idk, this is 2 years back, but high ping does allow for some unfair gameplay in this footage i took.
    Doc starts running, I see that, i start backing up at Montagne, but on my screen i am backing up and he is clearly in front of me, whilst on the high ping player's cam, the player is behind me. Movement like coreross mentioned is something that needs to be investigated, since this is clearly an advantage for the high ping player.

  22. On my screen someone will peekand kill me in 0.3secs on killcam I'm on their screen for a solid 2 seconds every time they have a crazy ping

  23. Yeah, i'm cheating with my high ping, no anyone who claims that can get fucked, i live in the middle of nowhere with shitty optus net not my fault i have high

  24. Finally jesus christ, finally someone said this. I have always been playing with 50 and sometimes 80 ping because of my region and im not a bad player and when enemies saw me clutch or pull off something awesome they claimed that i was abusing ping while i was explaining that this was always a disadvantage for me. Thank r9, apreciate that, now i will forward people to this vid and let them see truth

  25. For high pingers the disadvantage is even if u peek and shot first , you'll die first . And no advantage of so

  26. I keep getting called a cheater and ping abuser and yet nobody seems to understand that it actually sucks. Having no servers sucks. To this day, many players don't understand this. Many occasions, I can blast someone in the face and he won't die and yet will kill me in one shot. It's frustrating and so I stopped playing ranked due to this.

  27. I very often get lovely comments such as "nice fucking ping arabs", or "go on your own damn region".
    I live in South Africa, I'd gladly go on my own servers IF there were any. It's frustrating enough without the lovely community shouting at ping every game.

  28. It was pretty obvious ping isn't a problem of the server's spazzout, a video we really need is "Will the "poor indie company ubisoft" ever buy normal server or will cocaine stay a higher priority for them?"

  29. Depends on the game, Tarkov gives an advantage to people with poor ping, this is why 4 of the top 5 players in Tark hide their pings on their stream. But usually yes, I have high ping, just leads me to getting shot when I've already made it to cover or the killcams shooting nowhere near me, or people just don't take damage from the bullets. Having the lowest ping is basically the same as being host on cod, you have a huge advantage.

  30. I'm so glad you made this video! I live in Madagascar and I get called a ping abuser all the time. I keep telling them that I am the one with a disadvantage but they just don't believe me. Next time I'll send them your video (;

  31. I’ve been playing with over 200 ping my whole life and no we don’t have an advantage we have multiple shots that don’t count and we get killed because our hit box don’t follow us.

  32. Networking is very complex and there's a lot of other factors to this. So the best solution to high ping is: stop crying and get better. High ping isn't the reason you're a low rank, YOU are. Other players can train and hit diamond even with all these "ping abusers" around, so why can't you?

  33. The short answer no, I live in africa and have to play on 100 ping plus always and I always have moments where the bullets dont hit for long and I get killed by invisible people cause they havent shown up on my screen

  34. In other words, the one that has 9 pings or lower ping will see the opponent first if the other player has higher ping… so that's why you will lose the fight or get inta kill because in their screen they have actually seen your body first before you get to see them on your screen.

  35. I play against an 150 ping ash flying around an corner and she just stares at me at least 3 seconds while I only see her shoulder peeking lol

  36. Worst I've ever seen on seige was someone who had 9999 ping. Must've been running internet through a pizza box.

  37. I think problems with ping abuse really come into play when lag compensation is done. Would be good to go deeper into that territory and how developers changed their lag compensation strategies over time

  38. i always get called ping abuser by these white ass 9 pings and they don't even know what an adantage they have against me

  39. English rouge… I dont care how many newton meters it takes for my ping to hit a satellite in space and the velocity per second…….

  40. Some players do not understand about latency and this is huge disadvantage in alltime

    Always blaming high ping players and they think high ping is something special privilege

    In rainbowsix siege never have ping abuse. always low ping is better

    If you don't believe this. just try play on asia server

  41. How do people really not get this yet? Ubi put out that graph like a year ago. Maybe people don't know what they are talking about when they are screaming into their mic after all…

  42. but me shooting an afk guy with a ping of 200 and suddently half of mag is empty and still i could not kill him becasue bullets didnt register. its a weird thing. maybe i should get me some better internet with a ping of 9ms insted of 20ms. thats my problem on the whole thing. that when i play against people with a normal ping it feels rlly smooth and the shots too. but when the whole team is laging the hell out of this game im score less than usual. can someone explain this to me. maybe i can stop raging hearing 20 bullets land but not killing him.
    EDIT: maybe the siege reg is fucked i could be wrong.

  43. I hate people with high ping. I was playing against a guy with 200 ping, my blitz shield should have flashed him but he fucking shot me up before the flash registered on his fucking screen.

  44. normally 100 milliseconds is what british players would have to endure if they want to play on american servers for whatever reason in whichever game. But once spaceX releases their starlink internet everyone here is going to get around 30-50 ping.

  45. if your oppenemnt has 9 ping from europe fiber like 500 mega speed and u have 2 mega speed and you from North africa playin on EUrope West where is the advantage ?!!!! even im super faster then the guy who has 9 ping his shot registrated on serever and mine nope. he has good and fast internet his information each server before mine reach server even if im super faster then him. he still peak and watch me afk for 2 second. and when i peak him i die and i cant even see him while peaking . so u need to make an other video what i site exmple above. and 9 ping i shot him many bullets in his head he got kill and he is full hp or i just removed from him 5 hp like he get hitted trap lesion or something

  46. Fluctuating ping in R6S can fuck up everyone's ping. Making the server lag heavily
    Fluctuating ping in For honor basically makes them attack instantly. Making the game unbalanced af since there is no way a person can react 100ms attacks

  47. I love in North Iraq(South Kurdistan) and my Ping is always 69-75 ms but sometimes the Data Center screws up and goes to the hundreds and it gets much more than in the menu, before Blood Orchid my Ping was always 100-120 ms

  48. this man i s lier j have small ping and ever when playing this shit wit guys with higher ping iits hard to kill em UBISHIT FIX PROBLEM

  49. These Youtubers always complain about ping advantage for high ping players.
    Its because they never played on high ping. I will ask them to try playing with high ping like 110ms + .. They will immediately see their control laggy, shots wont register, moving target will take a lot of shots to kill.
    Soon they will realise that high ping SUCKS

    People cry about peeker's advantage because some high ping player killed them, then they should not forget if you are the one peeking the high ping player, the high ping player is always at a great disadvantage and you are getting the easy kill. That's the second side of the coin.

    Its not like we want to play on high pings. But nothing can be done as ubisoft doesnt know "open new servers" concept. Either they are really poor organisation which cant afford more servers or they are just ignorant. I bet on the second.

    Edit : I will like to thank Rogue-9 and his amazing voice for enlightening his fellow youtubers.
    Also if Ubi cant get us more servers then please sell the game to valve. Apparently they have a whole lott of servers.

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