Game Theory: Handsome Jack, Monster or Misunderstood? (Borderlands 2/The Pre-Sequel!)

100 thoughts on “Game Theory: Handsome Jack, Monster or Misunderstood? (Borderlands 2/The Pre-Sequel!)

  1. I do think jack was the good guy because he didn’t want to kill Lilith if she didn’t destroy the eye in kick the symbol in his head in the pre sequel

  2. Ummmmmmmmm you do know handsome Jack was good but everyone around fucked him Over andddddd Maxie is his ex btw :3

  3. 9:20 the quote is

    Athena: “one day I received a job offer from a low level Hyperion programmer, come to the moon it said, hunt a vault, be a hero,”

    Lilith: “and what did you find”

    Athena: “violence, insanity, and a hero.”

  4. Jack was turned to his current state because he was betrayed by his boss his girlfriend his daughter no wonder he was labeled a villain remember history is written by the victors

  5. Now I'm actually wishing there was an option to spare Jack at the end of the game. Personally the first time I beat the main story, I killed Jack before he could even start talking.

  6. Well in the pre-sequal! Jack is good he helps you basically all the way throughout the game hes basically your partner

  7. Came back to this theory after replaying the Borderlands 1 and 2. Now idk much abt the Pre-sequel, but your entire Borderlands 2 spiel is flawed. I think Jack really was trying to bring order to Pandora but it was order via genocide: that's the entire legend of "The Warrior" to cleanse the planet with fire. I don't care that he was abused, has bpd, or was betrayed in the Pre-sequel (the only thing that proves is that Vault Hunters are morally grey which we already knew), none of that exonerates Jack from being a psychopathic, genocidal fascist.

    And let's not forget that Jack had Angel enslaved during Borderlands 1 (Before TPS), and reveals during 2 that he manipulated the 4 original vault hunters into opening the Vault of the Destroyer. You can't be betrayed by someone you were already manipulating (Roland and Lilith)

  8. Jack actually didnt see his death because lillith punched the relic into his face right before it would be shown THATS the real reason why he still proceeded on his misson he didnt think

  9. Hey MatPat, I hate to tell you but the Hyperion New-U stations are not canon in the Borderlands universe. They are basically a quirky in-game mechanic of continuing after you have died in the game. The head writer of the Borderlands 2 has confirmed this and has even stated that the stations DO NOT even exist in the plot of any Borderlands game. Sorry for nitpicking, I still love the intro, don't stop because of any nitpickers (like me) pointing out little trivial stuff like this.

  10. I didn't watch all of this video, the first time I saw it, because I hadn't played the Pre-Sequel. The part of the video that I did see, though, convinced me to buy it, even though PC Gamer Magazine gave it not the best score (they were wrong!).

    I just finished the game, and also this video. It may be "just a theory…", but I think it's dead-on accurate.

  11. It is not usually the goal itself that makes one evil, but rather the means someone goes about to achieve that goal. While Jack's goal is one with good intent, the means he uses to achieve those goals is unquestionably evil in borderlands 2. That makes him no hero, but rather a villain as advertised. The vault hunters are probably not heroes either; the games are basically full of evil people doing evil things, but a story doesn't always need a hero

  12. Does everyone forget that he killed 4 scientists out of a hunch, and after every kill says,"Huh, that felt good."

  13. Actually,none is the hero. Jack wants to bring peace to the never ending battlefield,by destroying it,and you,as the vault hunter,follow the rules,which means you are definitely not the hero. Just like in real wars,none is good guy. Everyone's goal and actions are far from good

  14. TBH, your Vault Hunter in TPS isn't all that innocent, whenever you kill one of Zarpedons men, their dying wish is for you to not open the Vault as they knew how it would go down. They also tell you that "you're all that's wrong with this world" and it's kinda true. You're just another psychopathic, murderous, money hungry monster, no better than the Scavs or Raiders.

  15. Damn. Jack has been betrayed time after time after time. Not to mention how he felt betrayed when Rhys blew up Helios in Tales From The Borderlands.

  16. The gun of borderlands was unserviceable it was terrible everything boiled down to rng the bloom the recoil the aim down sights sway everything was based around luck the gun play was terrible that’s why I uninstalled it it was terrible and it was so easy too like reviving for money and killing an enemy revived

  17. I think he is neither a hero nor a real villain…. He is the victim of his own horrible life formed by abusive and lying people…. I think he as a character seems surprisingly realistic and human even. He is my favourite videogame character right now and he probably always will be.

  18. maybe Jack revives them after killing them because he's a true villain keeping the heroes in an endless loop of death because real villains don't want to flat out kill the people they hate they want to make and watch them suffer.

    Edit: maybe I should make a theory channel channel leave me suggested names in the reply section, and if I don't choose a name you guys make it'll be called gathering theorists

  19. Only thing is. Listen to the dialog and the "rules" of Handsome Jack's city Opportunity. He has insane rules that he himself does not follow. He requires residents to worship him as a god-like figure. Lawlessness of Pandora vs. the rigorous over-structuring of Opportunity is a neat Ying/ Yang.

    I think the overall main point of Borderlands is to display the insanity of extremism, because both sides are equally horrible. Yo.

  20. But you realise why lilith and co betrayed em right? He went crazy killing the mayor and whatch what he says and how he says it afterwards. He goes crazy man. Im not saying lillith and co didnt help making in worse but he was already pretty weird after killing mayor and it to the end game with all tha future sights he sounds so insane when he saw em and before that aswdll

  21. Jack wanted to use the Warrior to bring "peace" to Pandora, and by doing that, no sequel for BL2 would happen, thus making him the best villain in the franchise forever!

  22. Honestly playing the Pre-Sequel changed my views on the whole game. I mean it makes sense that we’re just playing lawless bandits. Lilith and Brick literally start their own gangs, the name of Rolands forces are the Crimson RAIDERS. After the Pre-Sequel I just wanted to shoot Lilith in the face.

  23. game theory wouldnt that make lilith a villan but brick an mordecai the good guys as they didnt sabatage?

  24. I mean the thing is he's still the villain, but he's what I like to call an "anti-villain." Someone who does terrible things and plays the role of the antagonist, but is arguably right. Another great example of this archetype is funny valentine from jojo part 7. His goals are to protect his country and people, selfless, while the hero just wants his legs back.

  25. Big Nerd time : alright before the betrayal jack killed 5-6 scientists out of just SUSPICION that someone might betray him and then moxxi asks you for your opinion on that on which your character aint that against (note one of the scientist helped u build an army of robots and another one gave jack a cloaking device and all of them helped u disable a barrier)so you ain't exactly innocent thats why moxxi betrays u too

  26. Also for what it count kraig (the phyco) has a voice in his head that tells him to kill only the "deserving"

  27. I've got 1000+ hrs in BL2 and multiple playthroughs in TPS, I do agree with Jack possibly having borderline personality disorder, borderlands doesn't have "true" heroes. The most heroic people are NPCs such as Gladstone (TPS) and those characters most often die or have un-heroic like actions. Jack is a psycho. He'll kill, even commit genocide, to achieve his goals, Zer0 is an assassin looking for a challenge disregarding everyone he kills as "not a challenge". Salvador is also a complete psycho, convicted of multiple different crimes such as manslaughter before even coming to pandora. The original 4 vault hunters are also obviously not heroes. Really, tge 2 most heroic characters you can play as are Maya and Krieg, both of which still committed mass murder for personal gain.

    Like BL2's Intro song says: this ain't no place for no hero. And there aren't any. At least, not in the traditional sense of the word.

  28. Has everyone forgotten the murder Jack committed in the pre-sequal?? He murdered a sentient AI who had done nothing but help him, and the player. And yes. Having all your memories completely wiped, and reprogrammed into a killing machine is death for an AI.

  29. i don't think gearbox will ever make a antagonist as good as handsome jack again, the guy was likable and hateable at the same time.

  30. do y'all collectively forget why lilith and co started mistrusting jack because he tossed a bunch of scientists out of an airlock?

  31. You made this after the pre sequel came out, claimed to have done research and yet still say “his real face MYSTERIOUSLY ruined”
    YOU SHOULD KNOW

  32. So any of the parts where he said stuff to the tune of, this planet is gonna end, you’re all going to burn. The town Salvador was in being eradicated in minutes with no provocation. I just don’t get it. A lot of these theories are made either without you going deep in the games or left out on purpose because they dilute your thesis. Either way it’s not a good practice in my opinion.

  33. You know who is the true villain of the borderlands franchise? Everyone. No one is truely good in the game, and that's why I love it.

  34. I don't really understand why this is even a theory. Just play the pre-sequel and it basically spells it all out for you in pretty plain english. Jack wasn't bad until everyone including the playable characters from borderlands 2 betrayed him. Really this video only exists if you want the story without playing the pre-sequel.

  35. No matter how cool jack was as a character in his collection i doubt he was a hero at the end of it. Approaching roland and lilith in the presequel you ask for their help at the beginning of the game on hyperions (if i messed up the spelling dont hammer down on that) behalf. They turn you down saying there is now difference between both Hyperion and Dahl. In Bl2 he has good intensions sure about bringing peace to pandora but goes about it the wrong way sure you might have to kill bandits because they are a threat. I do believe that jack was a hero in presequel, but i see him more as a tyrant destroying lives and "enslaving" hyperion citizens. I say enslaving just by listening to the recorded messages in various hyperion locations. Example: one of the laws in oppertunity is if you talk bad about the laws/jack (cant really remember it has been a while since i ran through oppertunity, sorry) it is punishable by death. If that existed in real life do you know how many people would be put to death. Just saying i would atempt to kill jack too. Jack could have been a true hero had he not been betrayed by everyone exept maybe a few people. But when you take a good cause and go about doing it the wrong way you then become a villian. Its like saying a bank robber is a hero for trying to get expensive medicine for their child. Good cause went about it the wrong way making them a criminal. I know that is extremly long, so sorry, but just saying. I mean you made good points you really did but i wouldnt go to the distance saying he ended up the hero in Bl2

  36. Handsome Jack is a murderous psychopath and that is all. It does not matter what happened to him, he slaughtered millions and tortured his own daughter. Having something horrible happen to you doesn't necessarily make you predisposed to doing horrible things. Even if you are, you should not be pardoned of it.

  37. I have the game and when you kill his daughter he has no words but when he is dying but he calls you a child killing phsyco
    Path

  38. Here's my issue with trying to brand Jack just a result of corrupted good intentions. By the time the presequel starts he's been physically and emotionally abusing Angel for a few years. In the bl2 mission Get to Know Jack, the vault hunter tracks down an Echo of him locking Angel away. From the voice acting and lack of understanding of the situation, she's clearly pretty young, I'd estimate somewhere around 6-10 years old. I'd put her age in borderlands 1 as 13-16, making her age in bl2 18-21. If we assume the presequel is set at 2 years after bl1, then the shortest possible time Jack's had Angel locked up for his personal and professional gain before the presequel's events is 5 years, which I find to be 5 years too many to perceive a sympathetic version of Jack in the presequel. Keep in mind that this is the shortest possible time, less generously, I read the longest potential time of Jack abusing Angel before the presequel as 13 years.

    Tldr: I can't really read Jack as much of a hero because he's been abusing his kid for 5-13 years before his supposed well intentioned descent into villainy

  39. This is one of matpats theories that I completely disagree with. how can attempting to burn the whole planet in fire be in any way heroic.

  40. And the AI lady said something about sanctuary being a home for thugs and murderers, and goes on to say you should feel right at home.

  41. I think it’s more likely that he has Antisocial Personality Disorder than Borderline Personality Disorder. The symptoms match up more to being a sociopath than having BPD

  42. Bruh I bet most of the people who comment on the video don't actually play the game and just watch videos like this that just state part of the games actual story. Anyone who comments and says lilith was the bad guy and whatever. I'm level 80 OP 10 and 70 on tps so I know what I'm talking about.

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